Portal talk:Clan/Ranks
Content Moved From Forum Comments Let Yourselves Go People!!! (Write below here) I will keep the page clean, I'll be splitting the questions and matters with the line, this will help everyone keep track of their conversations. :I thought clan ranks were for just the game. Hmm... Babadingldoo 03:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC) ::I've brought up an idea similar to this one in the past. It's great, but it doesn't do any good when the majority of your clan members are inactive (both in-game, and on the wiki). Also, please don't forget to sign your posts. :::@Babs: Well I also think that since we pretty much are all at 101% complete, it becomes useless to show the in-game rank, well for all of us "major players" anyways. We could implement the in-game progress as an objective for the wiki's ranking... :::@CCX: I remember your project, but I really think that now is time to rethink it all, The Parkster's leaving is the perfect moment to rebuild this system... Perhaps it won't do any good to the inactive users, but then again the current ranking system does absolutely nothing good to the more "active" users, it would help them feel better, like their efforts would be payed back in form of a rank... After all we are all very happy to do this by volunteering but we all spend hours and hours editing, and that absolutely positively has to be shown! This project mustn't be forgotten!!! :::BTW you are all free to comment on the info above! What I have thought up is surely not the perfect system, and deserves to be tweaked! ::::@C ee X: I meant attendance and game skill, not game completion, anyone can get 100%. Babadingldoo 17:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC) :::::True, but then how do you measure "game skill"? ::::::When we have our clan meetings and see who pwns and who blows. :D Babadingldoo 18:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC) :::::::I host and I blow, lol. hehe, don't be so harsh on yourself X! :-P On a more serious note, I love the idea of adding the in-game skill as part of the rank objectives but it's too random, imprecise and simply isn't feasible. The only way we could do it is by setting freeburn challenge achievements thresholds (need 500/500 to reach Rank 5 or 5* for example) What other ways were you thinking? Challenge efficiency? Race results? Global Race Ranking? Most Barrel Rolls and highest flatspin? I see where you are getting, but there's no way of checking and verifying seriously. If we were to include game skill in rank objectives, admins would be the sole judges that by observing a member's behavior or skill during Clan Meets, would decide whether or not to promote that user. It's a good idea though and if they're ok with it (admins) then fire it up! :I don't care for in-game skill counting towards ranks. Loyalty and contributions to Burnopedia and the clan should be the things being rewarded, IMO. ::Exlonox is right. Lesser skilled players would get penalized and rejected if such an objective were set up. However, a great deal of maturity is required to be granted a higher rank. I'm not saying that with skill comes maturity, in reality I think it's the other way around sadly... Anyways let's not get lost and stick to the point, I think we should include some in-game progress levels to allow promotions but it stops there (eg 101% is needed for Rank 5) with no record breaking actions necessary. :::I really have to lol at this whole skill-in-gaming thing, there isn't a single video game out there that takes '''true "skill." ::::Hehe, absolutely right, it's all in our hands and fingers... Anyways, what do you think of this Konig? :::::What is "True Skill"? Skill is defined as the "Capacity to do something well" and is often the synonym for "technique". If you can do video games well, then you have "skill". Even if it only is using your fingers. :P :I think skill only applies to talents and abilities someone has & uses in "real life," not in a video game. I don't know, maybe I'm in the wrong here. ::Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. ---- Wait, what is this ranking system for exactly? If it's for editing ranks, I don't see what's so terrible about the existing one. If it's for in-game skill, f-ing good or f-ing terrible usually do the job for me. KBABZ 09:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :It's the clan's ranking system, I think the Burner rank distributed to everyone, and the Elite rank only applied to site admins is an obsolete system that does NOT represent each user's commitment to the clan and the number of valuable contributions he has made to the wiki, the game skill is taken in account only at a game-progress level (reach 100%, 101, 102%... But it stops there). This new system basically is more advanced and more rewarding... Read carefully the descriptions above it should answer a number of questions you might ask yourself! ;-) Currently Inactive Users It should be noted that I am keeping track of the inactive (ps3) clan members and will be kicking a boatload at the beginning of September. I sent them each a warning message at the beginning of this month (on the wiki, psn, and email). Those who didn't respond will be removed from the list. The 360 leaders should do the same. Two months absence from wiki editing and clan meets (unless excused) warrants a kick from the clan. :I agree, with both measures, a little housekeeping is always good. This also removes the lesser ranked members problem that CCX appropriately brought up where the number of rank 0s would have skyrocketed. Just out of curiosity X, how many might be kicked? ::Around fifteen. :::Out of the current 44 (if I count right). I hope this cleansing will help. I also hope the remaining are not all "Rank 0s". I honestly believe this system could work out, it's fair, simple, straight-forward and most of all: rewarding. It's all good in my opinion. ::::Hey, i know i've been one of those non-existent players, all my fault. However, since getting the message from Exlonox over two weeks ago, I've wanted to, but been unable to attend the saturday meetings until this week due to existing commitments which are ongoing. Would it be feasible to have a second meeting during the week? Not necessarily something that's required, but at least an additional way to interact with clan members. MadMonky 15:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC) :::::It's a point occasionally made. I suggest you take that topic to Portal talk:Clan. ::::::What if you clear the page of members and only allow admins to add members. Members would have to add the card to their userpages and wait till an admin adds it. Hopefully this would stop people adding there names and then forgetting about the wikia. :::::::Somehow I agree, but it would be even more work for the admins though... Also I don't think it's because their card has been added that the sign-in-once members will come back! The idea is good concerning the admins adding the infos is good however! ;-) Existing members new ranks Can we start on higher ranks based on what we've done already, or are we totally starting everyone at Rank 0, except for admins and whatnot? AssassinLegend 20:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC) :You didn't read above did you? Babadingldoo 20:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC) ::Yes we all will (for the biggest contributors and most active users at least), admins will figure out each member's new rank in accordance with his past contributions, don't worry Assassin, it won't be a total system reset! :::Didn't see anything clearly stating that. Oh well. Good thing it's not, though I believe I'll still be about Rank 0-1 because I haven't even attended one single meeting online. :::And as I write this, I just realized that I have totally missed the Burnout meeting again. Must... remember... next... week... AssassinLegend 18:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Don't worry, just keep it in mind and attend next week's meeting and all will be good, for the information check the "August 2009 Situation" above in the "Special Promotions" section... ;-) BTW would you be up for such a project? :::::'By the time we get this running it'll be September. XD Babadingldoo 19:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC) Rank Names Unexpectedly, LeMansRacer, while building a new Clan Card Template made me laugh quite a lot when he (without a particular reason) added the name "Jason Statham" to the card next to the rank number simply as a placeholder (is that right LM? ;-) ). At first I thought he was comparing me to him (but not really in the end lol). Yet this gave me instantly an idea that we could use character names to represent our clan rank! Of course I think this should be optional, but could help us solve our rank names problem, with a more prestigious name representing a higher rank. This remains an idea, if you have anything to say, post here! :Having rethought it through, I think we shouldn't base clan names on character names, but this feature should stay! It adds a customization option! (See the template currently under-construction to see what I'm on about). :Only reply on in this section for comments concerning Clan names, comments concerning clan card features should be posted on it's Discussion page). Now shall we confirm those rank names? No one has posted comments about this yet! Thanks! ::I think the ranks should be named after Burnout Terms like: Rank 0 = Lamer (Burnout term for lame old speed limit driving traffic folk) Rank 1 = Learners Permit Rank 2 = Burner Rank 3 = Elite Burner Rank 4 = Criterion Elite Burner Rank 5 = Legendary Burner (I made that one up but it involves a Burnout term) ::Thank you for posting here and taking interest in the topic! Unfortunately I see "Lamer" as a pejorative term and I don't want to accept that. Other ranks are okay I guess, but I see the word "Burner" a bit too often in my opinion. It all seems too "Copy and Paste" to me! Also I think users would be "Elite" slightly too soon, which would defeat the purpose of actually having ranks (since "elite" signifies the "at the top of the social strata and almost invariably puts it in a position of leadership" ! I agree with your very first idea where ranks are based on Burnout ranks, but after all, doesn't it seem a bit old, repetitive and not any more representative of our current ranking system? I was trying to give a meaning for each name I made, representing the commitment and attendance the user... Define: Contributions I agree with this system, but for the contributions would minor edits count too? because I know that after a while there won't be much to add... (even though that may not be soon). Perhaps we should define different levels of contributions? I'm just throwing ideas out there... -Namdamyo 16:55, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :I don't think it's up to me to reply to that, simply because I don't know! But Edits count as edits, there are no "half edits". I don't think we're harsh enough to actually check the size (in bytes) of data contributed! So rest assured, your edits count as much as anyone else's, as long as they are relevant and verified. :''BTW: The minor edit check box you in the Save Page/Preview bar is only for other admins to see if this a big or small edit... (Use minor edits if you have forgotten so sign your post after saving the page for instance) ::If minor edits weren't counted, I'd have 0 contributions here... All my edits are marked as minor (habit). An edit is a contribution whether it's a full article re-write or a simple typo correction. I will not be one to go through every contribution and check to see whether it was a huge impact or not, and I doubt anyone else here would either. :::I see. This system won't require checking, a user wanting to be promoted will give details to an admin, with a number of edits during a certain period, all the admin will have to do is check that number with the number of contributions that user made, check the Meet debriefings to check attendance and trust in the user; then applying the promotion if nothing else has gone wrong or if another admin refuses the promotion. After all, if a user's request is suspicious, it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to figure it out! (I'll update the Rules section right away) Council Voting 'Some questions. Are the admins the council, or do they select 4 people to be in it? If it's the first half, then that won't work, cause some admins aren't here that often, like Crashbroke and Parkster. Also, I saw something for 3/4 agree and 3/4 disagree, but nothing about a tie. What happens then? Babadingldoo 02:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :A race to the death thru the streets of Paradise MWAHAHAHAHAHA [[User:Spoil-t|'Spoil]][[User talk:Spoil-t|'''-t']] 02:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :Good questions, let me answer them the best I can... The administrator council is the whole administration, full stop. You are right when you bring up the fact that not all admins are online together, you should also note that The Parkster is sadly no longer an active administrator here on the wikia (check the sidebar ;-) ). :Crashbroke has posted on this topic today, if he does not wish to be part of the council (for whatever reasons) and wishes to appoint someone to represent him during his absences, he should let us know. Rappy is online fairly often and Exlonox and CCX are on often. If the admins I have quoted disagree, the again, let us know! :You read well, in case of 3 council members '''DISAGREEING', the promotion request is instantly rejected. in case of 3 members AGREEING and only for votes concerning players going from Rank 3 to 4 and Rank 4 to 5, the case is automatically approved. :I have not written anything about a tie, if that is the case (2/2 agreeing and 2/2 disagreeing) then the promotion is denied and the user in question will have to convince the disagreeing admins to approve his promotion by contributing more, or by attending to another clan meeting, to show their worthiness (details concerning re-applications can be found above, in the "Laws" section). I hope I have cleared it all up for you! ::I thought CCX was an assistant. :s Babadingldoo 03:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :::no longer! Anymore question? Check the new Promotion process section I made for additional details! Read the Rules Pertaining to #4, what would "Special Promotions" be? :Made that law when the previous section was written but has now been renamed, (I have now modified the rule accordingly) ;) they refer to the "Special User Ranks" and "Administration Ranks". Hope that replies to your question! Me cruiser or learner??= Soo i would be a cruiser if this change takes place OR would i be a learner... --Elite Racer, Rank 11 23:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC) Check out my youtube channel!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/Kikarah :Depends, on whether or not you have contributed to the wiki and attended to clan meetings! Read above to see which rank's description fits you best. Rank Colors Idea started off by Ex, suggesting we could have a different color as we gain ranks. How this could be included is undetermined. However I have suggested using the Template:Clan card and by modifying a certain box's (for example the one with the rank name) background color to one representative of the rank. Throw in your ideas just next to mine! (number denotes rank) *0 - Dark Red *1 - Red *2 - Dark Orange *3 - Orange *4 - Light Orange *5 - Yellow *5* - White *6 - Light Grey *7 - Grey *8 - Black Just throwing stuff in! Reply your thoughts! :Why not use the rank icons from Burnout Revenge? ::I was thinking of the 8 colors used for player names in Burnout Paradise, for instance #8 being yellow. How many Revenge ranks are there, LM? :::11. Unsafe - Elite. Look here ::::Ah ok! Lincoln would end up pink... lol. True but isn't P1/Host yellow? Did you mean in the user table in the top right during online freeburns? ::::Those Revenge ranks sound cool! and those icons look sweet! but we'll have to rethink the card for it to fit, or abandon that user picture box and replace it with the rank... They seem a bit too aggressive though, don't you think? Sounds fun. ::::However, we currently have 9 ranks, 3 of which are ranks regular users cannot attain, would it be unfair for others if the administration were all elites? Just commenting... :::::Split Admins into; Meeting Hosts, Assistants, Sysops & Bureaucrats ::::::I like the "Meeting Host" rank, renamed to "Pre-Assistant" or something else and include it in the Special User Ranks group. We have our 11 ranks (and it's a great thing that we have a "Rank 0" which fits perfectly with the "Harmless" badge!) Man LM, you sure nailed this problem right down! I'm happy this works out perfectly well! What do you think about the names? Rider needs to be changed since that's used to describe a person who Rides on bikes. You drive cars & bikes but you only can ride a bike. [[User:Spoil-t|'''Spoil]][[User talk:Spoil-t|'''-t']] 18:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :I do agree with you that it isn't accurate, I'll tweak something right away... If you feel the order isn't right for Ranks 3-4 just bring it up and we'll talk about it! Final Procedures (All Members Read) Survey This section is where you can sign your name that acts as a "vote". This is not a vote per se, just a survey that helps us see what clan members think of this. I have set up the first signature below: Approvals * * [[User:Spoil-t|'Spoil']][[User talk:Spoil-t|'-t']] 08:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC) * * 'Babadingldoo 16:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC) * Namdamyo 16:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC) * MadMonky 18:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC) * * * AssassinLegend 21:30, 24 August 2009 (UTC) Dis-approvals Survey Comments Approval of what, specifically? That is a heck of a lot of text up there! :LOL, A new ranking system simply! But I think there are too much sections for which people may agree to and other which they will disagree with, I think this "survey" isn't going they way I want it to. Even if this project is a good idea for you, nearly no other clan members talk about it and no other admins do either! Konig still hasn't expressed his thoughts on the proposed system, neither has Rappy! or the other major players in the clan (LeMans, Spoil-t, KBABZ, Smudger13, Babs, Lincoln, etc...)! I keep on editing this page by adding infos and moving stuff to be disguised as "bumps" but no one says anything! But I think it's just me taking things too seriously and maybe too far... Or may I be getting too involved? hmmm I'm certainly going wrong somewhere... ::I was suspended when this was brought up so I couldn't comment. [[User:Spoil-t|'Spoil']][[User talk:Spoil-t|'''-t']] 08:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :::'What do you mean I haven't posted my thoughts? Anything up there in cornflowerblue is me, obviously. If you mean about the idea of having a better ranking system in general, then it's another obvious for me. I suggested this needed an upgrade before you were even a member. :P Babadingldoo 16:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Ok then! Sorry I didn't pay enough attention to your posts! 8-) BTW If you had this plan before me, and still remember any ideas from back then, then feel free to post them here! I don't want to "steal" anyone's ideas! And yours could be quite interesting! Thanks for your support! :::::Nope, no ideas, just the idea of having more ranks. :D It's somewhere in the clan section, when I first joined the clan. Babadingldoo 17:25, 23 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::I see, in that case do you think I have set up enough? or do you think more need to be added? :::::::This is a great concept to help reward active members for their participation MadMonky 18:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for your support! And don't feel excluded, you could be promoted too! ::I lurk a lot. I was following this over the last week even though I haven't commented. Usually no comment from me is a good thing. I am quick to comment if I don't like an idea. I don't have much to add to this at all really. I like the idea, something like this should have been done a while ago, but no one ever did. I will re-read over this again soon and see if I have any thing I want to bring to the attention of everyone about it. :::I must admit that I am relieved! lol Only joking, can I assume you approve of this? for now? ---- Hey there to all, Just a quick poll/update intended for all users (as everything posted on this page has been). Seeing that this new system will radically change how the wiki clan is set up, we (the team, Exlonox and myself) were thinking about the final procedures to get this new system up and running. First of all I need your feedback for a mesure we are going to take, we were thinking about merging Burnout Wiki:User list with Portal:Clan/Members, seeing that one would be useless and obsolete (User list doesn't show ranks and Clan/Members will be reformated to include the currently under construction Template:Clan card. With that said I await your approvals as this (and I can't/won't say this too much) concerns all of us and everyone has their say in the matter! Holler back people! Cheers 'Are you forcing people to join the clan? That's what it looks like. Not everyone who joins the site wants to join the clan. Not everyone who joins the site wants to play BP with us. '''Also, since members and clan members seem to be the same now, what happens if the member is kicked from the clan? Are they kick from the wiki too? If they can stay, where will they be catagorized? They're not a member of the clan, but are a member of the wiki, but all wiki members are apart of the clan, but they were kicked out of the clan, but they can still edit pages, but they're not apart of any list, but... Babadingldoo 23:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :hooo hold yur horsees babs! :I'm not forcing anyone to do anything! And I never wanted to confuse both parties, but then again, who joins the wiki but not the clan, and second of all the ranking system applies to all! Not just the "clan" members! :If someone turns out to "not" be part of the clan, then his promotions will only consider wiki contributions, and not clan attendance! As for the kicking, if someone is kicked, I don't see why they should be able to make edits but not join meetings and the other way around. What I'm saying is, if he's kicked, he's kicked, from all Burnopedia activities (wiki + clan + meetings + whatnot) OK? ::'I don't think this site has ever banned someone due to inactivity. If someone joins the site, contributes for about 6 months, then leaves for a month or two, they shouldn't come back and find out they have been banned and have to make a new account. Babadingldoo 23:40, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::If that's what you think, then why did you bring up the "kick/ban" problem, since you suggest it isn't gonna happen... TBH I'm confused with your questions... :-/ What else did you want to clear up? ::::'Being kicked from the clan is fine, not being able to use the site is not. Babadingldoo 23:49, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::Ah ok, I understand, well in that case, people can still contribute to the wiki, but can't attend meets, it's as simple as that! ::::::'So if they get kick from the clan, they will be removed from the list. And since we're getting rid of the user list, they won't be in any list. Is that correct? Babadingldoo 23:57, September 2, 2009 (UTC) Where did you get this bulls***, Babad? Not all users of the site are on the User list. Inactivity on the site and clan removes a user from the list but in no way takes away their ability to edit the wiki. Base your decision on whether to merge the lists on that, rather than the extreme statements you thought you read. :'I never though that would happen. That's what C ee X wrote. And people aren't on the user list because they don't see it. If everyone saw it, or they were given the link when they join, they would most likely put there name. Babadingldoo 00:24, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::If someone doesn't sign into the Wikia for a year then of course there User ID should be deleted cause it's just wasting space on the Wikia. Also it looks like some paradox is happening here with this list merging business. [[User:Spoil-t|'Spoil]][[User talk:Spoil-t|'''-t']] 01:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC) I've mostly been sitting back and watching this topic closely. A few minor things about the names of the ranks. I think "Burner" should be switched with the "Driver" rank, and "Wheelman" should be changed to "Stunt Runner" or "Stunt Man" (yes I know, small suggestions for such a big thread). In reply to Ex's comment on my talk page, I am okay with moving forward with these changes. I'd say that most of my thoughts on this new ranking system will come in '''after' it is put into play. One more thing, and it's directed towards Seeks. Man, you really put all of your mind into matters like this (not to mention your BP street articles). Speaking of those articles, it appears that I've overlooked some of your new ones and I have some "nitpicking" to do to them in the near future. :P :Well then, for the names let me explain myself: I feel that the rank "Burner" has been in place for so long (a year actually!) that to me personally it has lost all its fundamental worth... Imagine if guys who wanted a new ranking system too, finally end up being promoted to... well, "Burners" like they always have been... it's meaningless! Which is why I have chosen not to include this rank, so that commited users feel they have actually really been promoted... :As for the other names the current ranking will go: DriverHere's how I look at it. If you played Burnout since 3 & when someone says Burner & you are like "WTF is that" you need to be shot. Shot by a Carson Annihilator Street Rod doing 300MPH down Lawrence Road. I think the Ranks should follow the ranks of Revenge or the Licenses of Paradise. [[User:Spoil-t|'Spoil']][[User talk:Spoil-t|'''-t']] 02:28, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::This isn't the time to discuss rank names, there is already a section up there which has been open to debate for several weeks now... :::This section only asks if you are ok for both lists (mentioned above) to be merged, since one will be obsolete when this system is applied. Thank you. :::: Since this system seems to address who to trust and not with posts, and the fact it adds a bit of a reward for keeping up at this place, I'm giving it the green light. But something i wish to see over the next few months is the amount of ranks is simplified (decreased) due to mass confusion for new users who wish to stay here, even for me. I've seen this wiki change a lot over a 1 year time, most for the better. This wiki can be proud for the people who have made this wiki great. Start the system within the next week as a beta. Then over the next month, watch for glitches and problems, it will be paramount that the system works flawlessly. OK? :::::I'm very much pleased to hear that you approve! For the number of ranks: Somehow in my opinion, it seems that everything fits so well (number of ranks fit number of stars on the badges, etc...). However, I can understand that such a system is confusing, I think that rewriting all of the rank descriptions may help making this system a little bit less confusing... Names can be changed as well, but I don't think that this is the element causing all the confusion. As a final word concerning this I'd just like to say that we must keep a decent amount of ranks (after all, there are only 10!) to show to new users that making efforts on the wiki will get you higher, and trying harder will get you ''even higher! What I'm trying to say is that we need a sizable amount of levels so that every rank is proportionally distributed and that users at the bottom will be pleased to be promoted and maybe one day reach top positions such as Rank 7 or even be part of the administration. :::::I'm very excited about finally putting this system into action! So many weeks of thinking and sorting out! Beta week will be great step forward and we'll be finally able to tie up those loose ends and fix anything that has to be fixed! I am convinced that this system will work with absolutely no problems, I will personally see to it that there are no contradictions or confusions in the sections above. :::::I'm positive that this will work, no issues whatsoever.